A conversation between Scott Douglas Jacobsen and Lloyd Hawkeye Robertson about male stigma first published in In-Sight Journal

Individual Publication Date: June 1, 2024

Abstract

Dr. Lloyd Hawkeye Robertson is a Registered Doctoral Psychologist with expertise in Counselling Psychology, Educational Psychology, and Human Resource Development. His research interests include memes as applied to self-knowledge, the evolution of religion and spirituality, the aboriginal self’s structure, residential school syndrome, prior learning recognition and assessment, and the treatment of suicide ideation. Robertson discusses: the research on male stigma; replications of the studies; “men are trash”; socioeconomic status differences if any; the variable of education; social commentary; and looking ahead.

Keywords: Male stigma, Prejudice, Sexism, Intersectional feminism, Domestic violence, SCUM manifesto, Bias, Qualitative research, Parental alienation, Oppressor class, Education, Disposability of men.

Conversation with Dr. Lloyd Hawkeye Robertson on “Men are Trash” and Male Stigma

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: We have done a lot of interviews together. One of those recent ones, by you of me, covered some of the mixed-feeling personal experiences in which I have encountered some unfortunate prejudiced statements by some women in work with them. Things like “Men are trash” at one restaurant job. That’s, at a minimum, a biased statement. Even in spite of the significant progress many women have achieved in the contemporary period in terms of education, work, reproductive rights, and the like, I fight for these same items. However, I recognize some of the prejudice creep in some aspects of Canadian culture, as exemplified in statements like the above. You have published some early work on male stigma. It is a disheartening and sometimes hurtful string of phenomena, especially as I have donated so much volunteer time and work to organizations and writing, and interviewing, on these subjects. So, I have to ask, “What is the status of the research on male stigma?” 

Dr. Lloyd Hawkeye Robertson: I used a classic definition of stigma as the ascription of negative qualities to a group on the basis of their group membership. I found a sample of men who had been ascribed the qualities of being incompetent in social situations and potentially violent not on the basis of their past performance but on the basis of their being men. I don’t know of any other studies that have approached this issue in this way.

Jacobsen: Has there been much in the way of replications of the studies or studies following in the same line of research?

Robertson: While there has been no replication of my original method, to my knowledge, there have been studies that have found related elements of my findings. For example, Tsang and his associates found that male victims of domestic violence in Hong Kong and Taiwan were stigmatized as inadequate men, and this justified the beating they had received. Various studies have shown that men receive, on average, heavier sentence in domestic violence situations than do women the the implication of greater culpability. In a study of 500 randomly selected appellate cases in Canada Harman and Lorando found that the legal system at trial showed assumptions that allegations of abuse made by protective mothers are more likely than not have been accurate. 

Jacobsen: Could these statements, e.g., “Men are trash,” be reflective of a fallout of some malevolent sexism directed at men?

Robertson: I think a statement like “men are trash” would be an example of sexism. I think the SCUM manifesto by Solenas that advocated the elimination of men is unquestionably malevolent. Yet it is celebrated in some feminist circles. There is a recent paperback published by Harper Collins titled “How to kill a man and get away with it.” Would that title be allowable referencing any other identifiable racial or sexual group?

Jacobsen: These statements were in blue collar environments – restaurants and farming. Could these more reflect a phenomenon happening in lower-income brackets than higher income brackets?

Robertson: In my research I did not find any evidence that this was primarily a lower income phenomenon. Having said that, people with lower incomes may be tempted to scapegoat in order to blame their failures on others.

Jacobsen: What about in the variable of education? Could education act as a buffer against negative attitudes popping up, about men, in a manner similar to consciousness-raising about reducing negative attitudes against women in the feminist movements?

Robertson: I think university education has been part of the problem. Intersectional feminism, in particular, starts with the assumption that men represent an oppressor class that acts collectively to keep women down. Data are selectively interpreted from this lens blinding us to other possibilities that explain sex and gender differences. I think these attitudes get filtered down to the working class. The notion “all men are trash” might be based on some personal experience of the person who said it, but the generalization of “all men” is an ideological statement.

Jacobsen: What is the psychology of prejudice or bias based on sex and gender?

Robertson: I think prejudice as justified by stigma has the psychological benefit of justifying one’s own privilege and excusing one’s own wrong doing. Either parent can be a victim of parental alienation, for example; however, when a mother does it she can invoke a male stigma to justify her actions. 

Jacobsen: Is it premature to extend social commentary based on early academic research on male stigma and individual experiences/limited qualitative data?

Robertson: My study was qualitative, so while I can say that male stigma exists I cannot say from this study, how extensive male stigma is in Canada or North America generally.

Jacobsen: Any final thoughts on where conversations could go around this?

Robertson: There are assumptions of the disposability of men that are far older than feminism. For example, Maria Kulaglow related how a Rwanda cabinet minister said that the genocide was particularly hard on women in her country because 70% of those killed were men. Hillary Clinton said something similar in a statement that women are the real victims of war. These statements reflect an older culture where men are cannon fodder whose lives can be discounted but the lives of women need to be protected. I embraced Women’s Liberation in the 1960s, in part because equality would be a net benefit for men.

Jacobsen: Thank you for the opportunity and your time, Lloyd.

Citations

American Medical Association (AMA 11th Edition): Jacobsen S. Conversation with Dr. Lloyd Hawkeye Robertson on “Men are Trash” and Male Stigma. June 2024; 12(3). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/men-trash-male-stigma

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